Post by Cleve Dean on Jun 21, 2009 12:21:29 GMT -5
I CAN NOT REMEMBER HIS NAME BUR HE WAS ON THE RUSSIAN TEAM AND HE WAS FROM GEORGIA. HE WAS IN THE LIGHT WEIGHT CLASS I BELIEVE AND HE WAS A GYMNAST. YOU WOULD HAVE HAD TO BE AT THE WORLD'S IN SWEDEN TO KNOW THIS GUY AND I BELIEVE THAT HIS WRIST WOULD HAVE HAD TO BREAK IN IN ORDER TO BREAK HES WRIST BACK. HE HAD THE MOST AWSOME ARM MUSCLE DEVELOPMENT THAT I HAVE EVER SEEN. HE COULD CURL UP HIS BICEPS AND YOU SUDDENLY UNDERSTOOD WHY THOSE MUSCLES ARE CALLED BI-CEPS.
did Roger not toproll him last year? no disrespect to Roger but he sure is not one of the best in the world (one of the best in N.A.),if he toprolled Vazgen then i disagree with you,Alper.do you believe that Vazgen has a stronger wrist than Roman at 143?
Post by Alper Cosar on Jun 21, 2009 14:51:17 GMT -5
Yes because of the lbs difference. Vazgen is 140 range when he competes in USA and he competes in 154 lbs class....Roger is technically 2 classes higher than him at World standards. now that Vazgen has gained some weight IMO Roger can not take his hand.....
Post by Alper Cosar on Jun 21, 2009 14:53:26 GMT -5
Roman and Vagen will go head to head on lbs for lbs wrist power (we are talking about hooking wrist power right? not toproll because I believe wrist strentgh used in hooking someone is much more than toprolling wrist power with back pressure help)
i believe that Vazgen is no less than 143 pounds when competing in 154s.so being toprolled by someone who is a weight class higher but isnt one of the best makes me disagree with you.Roger at 154 can not toproll Roman at 143 and i would bet my life on it.
wrist is not used only for hooking,wrist can be used to stop being toprolled as Arsen is not a hook puller but he curls in everyone without any problems.
someone who has the pound for pound strongest wrist in the world should not be toprolled by someone who is a weight class above but not one of the best in the world.
you will not see Roman,Rustam,Stojan,Lubomir or Arsen being toprolled by even the World's (not N.America's) best pullers who are a weight class heavier than themselves.
btw wrist power can include front wrist as well.also during toproll you can have back pressure help but it also shows the strength of your wrist if it handles the pressure.also hooking is not all about pure wrist curling strength since it may include supination,speed and even tricep power.i always separated wrist strength into two categories;
1-offensive,which has active curling strength
2-defensive,which handles the pressure (static beginning position solidness)
Post by Alper Cosar on Jun 21, 2009 15:24:50 GMT -5
Pure wrist power - (Eastern hookers use their body positioning to hook not pure wirst power like Vazgen does or Toprollers like Liliev use assistance of back pressure) Therefore I am thinking because of the way VAZGEN armwrestles he uses the lbs for lbs most wrist power in AW. but I may be wrong on my analysis.... However everymatch I watch of Vazgen - he uses his wrist to close his opponent under him- that is a lot of power.
I BELIEVE THAT HIS WRIST WOULD HAVE HAD TO BREAK IN IN ORDER TO BREAK HES WRIST BACK..
that is what i also call strong wrist ! not the one that can curl but can also be toprolled.
Vazgen is the best 132 in the world and has a powerful wrist but the strongest pound for pound wrist should not be toprolled by Roger just because he is one class heavier.this does not mean that Roger is not a strong guy.i have pulled him tens of times and for sure he is a strong guy,one of the best light weights in N.America.but i have enough of experience to not to rank him one of the best in the World.
i would think of Vazgen as one of the best if the question was strongest wrist curling strength.
i am sure that Roman (which i havent seen),Lubo (Janis has done),Rustam (Cvetan did as last time),Stojan and Arsen have also experienced their wrists being toprolled at least once but these happenned against the best pullers in the world.
i was just watching M.Todd vs Oncescu match,then this subject came to my mind.
Alper you wrote that back pressure help the wrist.sorry but it is not the case if your wrist is not strong as your wrist will be bent back no matter how strong you apply your back pressure if your opponent is also applying back pressure.if your opponent is also applying back pressure then it can be the best way to determine the wrist strength.both Michael and Ion had their wrists bent back during the back pressures.same case was with Brzenk vs Denis match.both had their wrists being bent back whenever Denis used his rowing.John has one of the pound for pound strongest curling strength with the best hand control ever but i am sure that he will not deny that handling part of his wrist is not as good as his curling as he has experienced same positions with Taras,Kotchiev,Bresnan,Bagent and some others but with experience & quality he beat them most of the times.it probably is because of his injuries but i am talking about today's situation.
so in short back pressure can be a negative factor for one's wrist if his wrist is not solid enough.